if you compete in agility please volunteer to work trials Options

[margaretandluigi]

I belong to a very small but dedicated agility club. This year we hosted (or will host) 11 agility trials including 4 USDAA, 3 CPE and 3 TDAA. Normally trials are hosted at our site which means we do not have to move equipment. This year we agreed to host a trial at a different site as part of the local horse show. The AKC club that usually hosts a trial there backed out because of the heat and rain they've had in past years. From the get go this trial was a nightmare as the organizers (not out club) put the rings in the wrong place then would not let us drive the truck with equipment near them, so we had to lug two rings of equipment across a 500 yard field (and this is not PVC).

About half our club (the less dedicated half) went to the AKC trial in the air conditioned soccer arena. Leaving about 10 of us to run a two ring trial in 95 degree heat with nearly a 100% humidity. There were 120 dogs entered in this show. But I can count on my right hand the number of nonclub people who actually volunteered to help at all with the trial. The clincher was when I and my trainer were waiting in line to run our dogs (after having set the course) and the woman in front of us comes off the course, looks right at us, and says "we could use a leash runner you know." My trainer responds with "we're trying to get volunteers." Do you think she came back after putting her dog up to help, of course not. My dogs suffered all weekend because I was too busy trying to do set courses, scribe, score and move equipment to spend any time with them. Josie's last run I simply scratched b/c no one else would volunteer to scribe for Grand Prix. And then at the end of the trial I hear the judge complaining because he had no ring crew. Half of the competitors were sitting in the stands watching the dogs run.

Our club is just about burnt out and we are one of the last clubs in our area hosting a large number of shows in different venues. We've just about hit the point where we are ready to quit hosting and just want to go to other people's trials and sit on our butts and run our dogs. We don't get rich hosting trials - in fact most trials barely break even once we pay fees to the host registry and to the judges. The problem is that too many clubs are hitting that point - soon there won't be any trials. So, back to the point of this rather long rant - if you go to an agility trial, help out the club hosting it by setting bars or offering to run leashes or scribe sheets. Any amount of help you can offer will be appreciated. Trust me, your dogs will survive without you for a little while and you'll probably learn more about the game.

[herdingdogs]

Sorry to hear about your trial. I know how hard it is to get volunteers. However we're pretty lucky in our area that most people will pitch in during the day.

Question, why did you do the trial if another group had pulled because of the heat and bad weather they've had. I would think if they had problems with the site, you wouldn't want to take it on either. Around here agility trials in the summer are almost always in air conditioned buildings cause no one wants to sit outside in the heat we get (I.e. today the humidity is 85%). But what a bummer about the site. And the help. It's one of the reasons why our team does not run dogs when we host a flyball tournament. There's too much work to do and to run a dog on top on that is just too much.

We don't get rich hosting trials - in fact most trials barely break even once we pay fees to the host registry and to the judges.

Now this statement really surprises me. Around here clubs CLEAR $10,000+ on agility trials! It's one of my pet peeves. Everyone wants to host agiltiy trials for they make so much money. In flyball we barely cover our costs and have to have raffles if we want to actually make any money. I don't mind a club making some money, but that much is ridiculous. I wish they'd lower the cost of the entry fees. Basically I feel, around here anyway, that agility has become an elite sport for the rich. It's priced the average person right out of the game.

So I'm curious as to why your club is not making any money? What are you charging for your entry fees? Maybe you could raise your rates but give discounts to workers? Sometimes at flyball tournaments they will give raffle tickets out to the workers as incentive.

I don't blame you for being discourage. It gets tiring doing all the work while others just sit and take advantage of it. Perhaps doing a few less trials would give you all a break and make others appreciate what you do more if there is less venues for them to participate in. And I'd get the word out just why you're not hosting as many. Maybe that will inspire people to help out a bit more. It is frustrating. Been there, done that.

Good luck,
Linda

[margaretandluigi]

Around here clubs CLEAR $10,000+ on agility trials!

Are those clubs hosting AKC trials? The only reason AKC trials make money is because they charge outrageous fees. I don't have AKC dogs so I won't belong to or help a club that hosts only AKC trials and I refuse to help out at any trial where my dogs aren't allowed to play. For our USDAA and CPE trials we charge $12 a run. Since there are often 4 or 5 runs a day it still gets really expensive to enter, especially with multiple dogs. The problem is the amount of money that goes back to the registry (I will never begrudge a judge the measilly $1 per run that they are paid). I imagine that we will host fewer trials next year and its all because the people who participate refuse to help.

[herdingdogs]

Are those clubs hosting AKC trials? The only reason AKC trials make money is because they charge outrageous fees. I don't have AKC dogs so I won't belong to or help a club that hosts only AKC trials and I refuse to help out at any trial where my dogs aren't allowed to play. For our USDAA and CPE trials we charge $12 a run. Since there are often 4 or 5 runs a day it still gets really expensive to enter, especially with multiple dogs. The problem is the amount of money that goes back to the registry (I will never begrudge a judge the measilly $1 per run that they are paid). I imagine that we will host fewer trials next year and its all because the people who participate refuse to help.

Yes they were AKC trials. This was about 4-5 years ago. They were charging $25 per run. Two runs a day (about 1 1/2 minute per run if I remember correctly). $100 for the weekend for one dog for no more than 6 minutes total on the course. Add a couple of more dogs and the price was ridiculous. NADAC was $20 for the first run and $12 for the others. They had 4 runs a day. $56 per dog per day. It adds up really quickly. That's when I gave it up and just do flyball. The most I've paid in flyball is $35 for the weekend per dog and they usually get 40 races over the weekend.

I don't begrudge the judges at all. Anyone who can stand out there all day and remain focuses has my admiration. :smile: And the cost of the facility and other expenses definitely needs to be covered. And the host club should make some money for all their work. A club I use to be a member of would hold 1 or 2 agility trials just to make money to cover their obedience trials (which always lost money) and other events. They cleared over $13,000 at a trial one year. I think that is wrong and soaking the agility people. But people will pay it and they fill all the time.

I remember one club almost made everyone who entered sign up to work. I don't know if they can really do that per AKC/NADAC/USDA/UKC rules but they made it sound like if you didn't sign up to work you wouldn't get in. I use to work my butt off at trials. Anytime I wasn't running a dog I worked. But when I heard how much the clubs were making off my efforts, I quit. I just can't afford to do agility anymore around here. :sad:

Linda

[fjoiris]

Yes they were AKC trials. This was about 4-5 years ago. They were charging $25 per run. Two runs a day (about 1 1/2 minute per run if I remember correctly). $100 for the weekend for one dog

That's outrageous. Around here it's $66 for one dog, two runs a day, two days ($33 a day) at most AKC trials, and it was cheaper 4-5 years ago. I'm sure glad I don't trial in your area!!

I find it upsetting when people bash any organization. There's room for everyone, and I think it's reasonable to expect that on a list open to anyone involved in any aspect of small dog sports should feel welcome. We all

sassie

[yettontop]

Here in the UK shows are huge by comparison - usually 6 to 10 rings - and would not be able to continue if it were not for most people 'pitching in' to help. Normally what happens is that a club will put on one or two weekend shows a year (enough for every weekend to be booked, sometimes with multiple clashes) and other clubs will ring party, or the judge will bring their own ring party. This is then reciprocated at other shows.
Each judge is limited to a maximum of 450 dogs per day, with each dog taking about 60 seconds for agility (including entering and leaving the ring) and about 40 seconds for jumping. Last weekend the Novice Agility rounds with 18 obstacles were won in about 20 seconds! Judges do not get paid per dog, but receive a gift from the organisers, breakfast and lunch, and their travel costs. Usually, they also get other perks such as free camping and free entries for one dog on the day they are not judging.
Entries cost 2 pounds sterling (sorry - no pound sign on this keyboard!) per class per dog. Rosettes usually go to at least 10% of the class entry, with trophies for 1 - 3 places. All summer shows are outdoors, and winter shows indoors.
Most weekend shows make some profit after venue hire, toilet and shower hire, rosettes, trophies, equipment hire, judges expenses, catering, evening entertainment, marquee hire etc are taken into account. Some shows make more of a profit than others. This is usually ploughed back into the organising show's accounts to subsidise the costs of running the club.

[margaretandluigi]

I don't think that anyone was bashing AKC. I just made a statement that (at lest in my area) the only trials that make money are AKC trials and it is because they charge close to twice as much per run as other venues). I also stated that I won't help at an AKC trial because they won't let my dogs play. Why is it that some people think the minute AKC is mentioned in a discussion it is being "bashed"?

[fjoiris]

. Why is it that some people think the minute AKC is mentioned in a discussion it is being \"bashed\"?

"The only reason AKC trials make money is because they charge outrageous fees"

I can certainly understand not wanting to volunteer at trials where your dog can't play, but the above sounded more like a an accusation that the AKC was charging outrageous (and that's generally not seen as a compliment) fees. The AKC does not charge outrageous fees because the AKC does not set the fees. I don't know how other organizations do it, but the AKC lets the individual clubs set the fees. In this area it is common practice for the first run to cost more than the second run, but that is also just custom and not something that the AKC has anything to do with. The clubs do pay a fee of $3 per dog (not per run) to the AKC, but that's the only requirement the AKC has in terms of money.

Stating that the AKC does not allow all dogs to play is a reasonable negative comment. Many people, even within the AKC, agree that this is a problem and effort has been under way for some time to find a solution that fits within the by laws and mission statement of the AKC, etc. etc. the disadvantage of being such an old club is that there are many rules already in effect that have to be dealt before changes can be made. The strides made in the last fifteen years have been huge and it is reasonable to expect that within the next fifteen years the AKC will allow all dogs who are not lame or blind to compete. They might also keep their present restriction against deaf dogs competing, but I think that, too has been under discussion and might change.

The up-side of dealing with an old organization is that they've got record keeping, filing, and awarding of certificates under control. Things might have changed, but at one point NADAC was not sending title certificates to people unless they paid a separate membership fee to the organization or an extra fee for their certificate. They also were very slow at posting titles and results to their website (the last time I checked they were only posted twice a year, but I assume that has gotten better) and did not always respond to emails asking for record information. I like running NADAC, and have a bunch of titles with them, but they can be frustrating on the record keeping level.

The USDAA seems to be the best of both worlds in terms of allowing all dogs to compete and also doing a good job of record keeping, etc. Of course for small dogs the jump height is an issue with them.

UKC has generally done a good job of record keeping, allowing all dogs to compete, etc. but there are not many UKC trials in most areas of the country.

I don't really know enough about Teacup, CPE, etc. to be aware of how good their infrastructure is.

sassie

[margaretandluigi]

Ok - let me rephrase - the club's hosting AKC trials seem to charge outrageous fees. (Around here they are $20 for the first run and $10 to $15 for the second). There are some clubs charging $15 to $18 per run for other venues - I just don't go to those. Most CPE and USDAA clubs here charge $12 per run (and some even run early bird specials - we went to one last fall that was 10 runs ofr $100.) Our TDAA trials are 8 runs for $78.

Both TDAA and CPE are very good about record keeping and sending out titles (CPE titles tend to come within 3 weeks of being earned and TDAA shortly thereafter). USDAA really struggled last year because of the change in titling structure but seems to be doing well now. (I think the last title that I earned came about 6 weeks later. Not bad considering my first title took 16 months to arrive.)

I just get frustrated with AKC b/c I have a purebred Jack Russell. He just meet the standards they have established for the breed (as I've been told in both of my ILP rejections). There are so many mixed breeds that receive ILP's that I get upset when my purebred isn't found to be acceptable. My understanding with the ILP program was that it was a determination of the whether the dog was a member of a particular breed, not whether it was GOOD member of that breed (conformationally speaking).

[herdingdogs]

I hope no one thinks I'm "bashing" any agility venue. In fact agility at all. It's a wonderful sport and I use to love it. What has gotten to me is the greediness I've seen it bring out in clubs in my area.

The clubs do set the price and obviously they are going for as much as they can get; and they do. Trials fill very quickly around here.

But I've been a member of clubs where they deliberatly hold agility trials just to make a ton of money. Yes, they need to make a profit for all their work and expense of having a trial, but an excess of $10,000 (this is after all their expenses have been paid) is too much in my mind at the expense of the handlers. Especially when we're doing a lot of the work for them too. I literally was going broke trying to attend agility trials and finally had to give up a sport I loved because of the expense. When I see that clubs could have lowered their entry fees (still making a decent profit) so more could play, it hurts. But my words have fallen on deaf ears around here for like I said, there are plenty of people are willing to pay whatever it takes to play the game.

Flyball around here is soooo different. Clubs do their upmost to keep the entry fees down. They have gone up a bit for the venues have gotten more expensive. However most of the clubs are lucky to make a few hundred dollars on the event itself. And trust me, they're even more work to host than an agiltiy trial. That's why there are always raffles to help them make a few more dollars (but it's up to the individual to participate in that).

But I in no way blame the sport or the venue. Agility is loads of fun and I love to see it becoming so popular. I'm just sad I can no longer afford to play.

Linda[/quote]

[Administrator Mr...]

All right, get out the violins here for me – for a minute – I promise there’s a point I’m about to make. :mrgreen: Lol .I started out as a kid who dreamed of owning a top Dressage horse and doing horse shows. Growing up on the “Gold Cost” of Long Island THAT was a pipe dream. I worked every weekend, first at the North Shore Animal League, then at a vet’s office and then mucking at stalls at the riding academy, just so I could afford a $30 a half hour lesson and an occasional show entry. Showing horses was insane! I could easily blow 600 or 700 HUNDRED dollars in one show weekend furious (1 rider and 1 horse) between the trailer, the horse lease and the ENTRY FEES. It drove me out of the sport. teary eyed I realized I would have to work my entire life away just to afford one weekend a month, at most, at a horse show. At that rate, I had a snow ball’s chance of ever getting anywhere with the sport. In college, I worked at a sports camp as a horseback riding counselor. I had many teenage girls under my tutelage who I thought were great athletes, but again, because they did not come from money, I knew they had little or no chance in the sport. When I watched the Olympic Equestrian events, I often wonder about how many others who could be there representing the US were not because they didn’t have the financial backing and could not afford the outrageous cost? How much further along would our Olympic team be if the althletes selected to represent the country were selected by merit at a young age and brought along, regardless of costs or if the sport were more affordable?

I’ve never met Elicia Calhoun but her story is a bit of inspiration to me. From my understanding, she quit her job as an engineer and devoted her life to agility. Living as poor as a church mouse in behind her Aunt’s house for a year and sleeping out of her car or camping out so that she could save money while traveling to trials. That was a tremendous risk and sacrifice I know I could never make. How many other Elicia’s will be turned away if agility becomes so popular that clubs begin to charge ever higher entry fees? What makes agility so wonderful is that at its root, is a sport about a dog and his owner running together in a park. The best teams are the ones who do it in perfect synchronicity, as though the dog and handler were reading each others minds. It’s a special talent and people who have this talent should not be pushed away from the sport because the sport gets too expensive for them! What a loss it would be to the sport as a whole!

Yettontop – I am curious to learn more about the British system. I know you mentioned that some of what is done in the UK is in the “dark ages” but perhaps, in this instance you guys are ahead of us. Seems like you have found a way to manage costs and create a team effort among several clubs. Do I have this right?

You also mentioned something about SHOWERS??????

[herdingdogs]

I’ve never met Elicia Calhoun but her story is a bit of inspiration to me. From my understanding, she quit her job as an engineer and devoted her life to agility. Living as poor as a church mouse in behind her Aunt’s house for a year and sleeping out of her car or camping out so that she could save money while traveling to trials. That was a tremendous risk and sacrifice I know I could never make. How many other Elicia’s will be turned away if agility becomes so popular that clubs begin to charge ever higher entry fees? What makes agility so wonderful is that at its root, is a sport about a dog and his owner running together in a park. The best teams are the ones who do it in perfect synchronicity, as though the dog and handler were reading each others minds. It’s a special talent and people who have this talent should not be pushed away from the sport because the sport gets too expensive for them! What a loss it would be to the sport as a whole!

Oh you put it so much better than I ever could. These dog sports are there for fun. They are not a life time career (unless you get so good and can teach classes/seminars, etc.) I have known people to give up there careers to do just what Elicia did. Some made it; others didn't. But for those who just want to do it for fun, it should be there. So I play at it when I get the chance and forgo the ribbons and titles. I do it for having a good time with my dog. It's a wonderful sport.

And I don't know how anyone can afford horse events!!! There was a young girl at the college I went to who was a world class rider. She was lucky to have found sponsors to support her in her endeavors. That is until a major one pulled out on her right before the Olympics and she was left with nothing. An incredible talent gone.

I guess I'd just like dog events to stay the friendly and open activities they have been. The friendliness and helpfulness I've seen in flyball and frisbee (and when I was active--agility) is amazing. It's one of the biggest reasons I've stayed so active in dog sports. I've met some amazing people over the years and how my life has changed since I got a dog and started all this craziness.

Linda

[yettontop]

Yettontop – I am curious to learn more about the British system. I know you mentioned that some of what is done in the UK is in the “dark ages” but perhaps, in this instance you guys are ahead of us. Seems like you have found a way to manage costs and create a team effort among several clubs. Do I have this right?  

You also mentioned something about SHOWERS??????

Yes, most people realise that unless they give some help, the shows will not be able to run. But, as I said, people feel willing to help - generally - because no individuals are making money out of the profits, only the dog clubs. One way or another any profit goes back into the sport. Plus, quite a number of the biggest shows are fund raisers for charities. There has been quite a lot of comment, however, on our Agility Addicts Forum, about more people needing to come forward and help. At the club I help to run, we don't run any shows, but we do ring party for a number of other shows during the year so that members get a chance to see just how much work goes into putting on a show. Helps to prevent anyone from sniping at other shows too!
Showers? Well, our weekend shows are outdoors, often at sports fields, so sometimes there are showers at the venue changing rooms. If the show is at, say, a country park or on a farm, there won't be any showers, although one or two shows do hire them in - like a storage container, only fitted with showers and maybe flushing toilets. These facilities are really appreciated by people camping in tents rather than in caravans or motorhomes.

[Administrator Mr...]

I've never seen showers at a dog show (any venue) in the US, although far fewer people are likely to camp out in tents ( a good many do camp out in cars who would probably appreciate a hot shower though!).

That's a nice touch. We're lucky if we've got a port-a-potty that isn't over-flowing. Ok, I'll quit with that thought.

dont know

[fjoiris]

I've never seen showers at a dog show (any venue) in the US, although far fewer people are likely to camp out in tents ( a good many do camp out in cars who would probably appreciate a hot shower though!).  

That's a nice touch.  We're lucky if we've got a port-a-potty that isn't over-flowing. Ok, I'll quit with that thought.

dont know

I've been to one with showers this year:
South Jersey Agility Club

Some of the indoor trials I've attended have been in soccer arenas that had showers also.

I wish there were more...

sassie

[margaretandluigi]

My last little semi-rant about AKC (at least for the moment) is that so many people in the agility community seem to think that there is AKC and then there is everything else. I had one instructor who had never even heard of CPE (and we are in the midwest where there are a lot of CPE trials) and didn't know how to play any of the games for USDAA. She had been in agility for 7 years without ever competing outside of AKC. A lot of people also act as though if you don't have a MACH you're not worth talking to. Its not AKC's fault per se, but that seems to be the way the sport is going.

I never intended for this thread to be about the different venues. Regardless of the which venue a trial is conducted under, the host club needs help and my original post was merely to urge everyone who enters a trial to help at it. There were a couple of people at our last trial who make their living off of the sport (I won't name names) but not once did they so much as lift a bar and they discouraged their students from helping either. I think that is just the wrong trend for the sport.

[herdingdogs]

I have a purebred Jack Russell. He just meet the standards they have established for the breed (as I've been told in both of my ILP rejections).

Well if he meets the standards then why are they rejecting him?

I did ILP my first aussie for I had a record of ther sire and dam (breeder just never bothered to register the pups). I never bothered with my rescue aussie for I wasn't doing any AKC venues by then. Wonder if they would have accepted her.

About the only showers you'll get around here at trials is if it rains outside (which does often happen). And we won't even talk about the porta potties. :roll: What we do to have fun with our dogs.

Linda